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How to Heat Treat MagnaMax Steel

By: Larrin
30 April 2026 at 17:37

Wide Release Date for MagnaMax for Small Knifemakers

MagnaMax will be on sale May 1st, 2026 at 9am on Niagara Specialty Metals’ online store: https://nsm-ny.com/shop/

You can create an account beforehand so that you are ready to buy once the steel goes live. We made the following commercial to get pumped for the release:

Intro

I wrote an article (and created a video) about MagnaMax properties a few months ago. So I won’t be rehashing all of the properties here. Basically, MagnaMax is designed to have enhanced wear resistance and edge retention vs MagnaCut with similar corrosion resistance and hardness potential.

You will also see in the chart above that MagnaMax offers superior toughness and edge retention to the popular M390 and 20CV. It is very difficult to improve both of these properties at the same time, so this is a big improvement. It also maintains similar toughness to grades CPM-154, S35VN, and Vanax, which were formerly the toughest PM stainless steels prior to MagnaCut. So it offers a significant edge retention improvement to those grades, which have had a reputation for good properties in the past.

That property summary article did not have specific heat treatment recommendations because I was waiting on the final material. The initial heat of steel had carbon on the low end of the specification, so it wasn’t as representative of the average material as I wanted. No change was made to the target composition or the specification, it just landed at the lower end for carbon. So now that I have received and tested material closer to the midpoint of the specification I performed a more comprehensive set of tests. Knifemaker Matthew Gregory helped to make the majority of the toughness coupons.

High Level Heat Treatment Summary

Before we get into all of the details I can give a simple summary so you don’t get lost.

With Cryo:

Austenitize 2100-2250°F (1150-1230°C). The baseline temperature for good properties is 2150°F (1175°C).

Plate quench for faster cooling and slightly higher hardness.

After cooling to approximately room temperature, place immediately in liquid nitrogen. The amount of time it sits in the liquid nitrogen doesn’t matter that much, it just needs to reach the temperature. An hour is fine. What does matter is not wasting time before putting it in the liquid nitrogen. You don’t need to check the hardness beforehand.

Temper 300-450°F (150-230°C) twice for two hours each time. 350°F (175°C) is a baseline temperature for good properties.

Without Cryo:

Use your household freezer. It is a myth that it doesn’t have any effect. There is no reason to do no cold treatment. Everybody has or can get a freezer. Dry ice is even better, but despite being about 100°F colder than a freezer often behaves closer to a freezer than to liquid nitrogen.

Austenitize 2050-2100°F (1120-1150°C). 2100°F (1150°C) is a good temperature. It might be possible to go somewhat higher but I worry about excess retained austenite.

Plate quench for faster cooling and slightly higher hardness.

After cooling to approximately room temperature, place immediately in the freezer or dry ice. The amount of time it sits in the freezer doesn’t matter that much, it just needs to reach the temperature. An hour is fine. What does matter is not wasting time before putting it in the freezer. You don’t need to check the hardness beforehand.

Temper 300-450°F (150-230°C) twice for two hours each time. 350°F (175°C) is a baseline temperature for good properties.

Austenitizing hold times:

The required hold time changes with temperature. This is the soak time required after the piece reaches the temperature. It rarely hurts to add extra minutes, it is more common to have an issue with undersoaking.

2050°F (1120°C): 20 minutes

2100°F (1150°C): 15 minutes

2150°F (1175°C): 10 minutes

2200°F (1205°C): 5 minutes

2250°F (1230°C): 5 minutes

Hardness and Cryo

I first made a series of coupons to test the hardening response, including with the addition of a freezer or liquid nitrogen treatment after quenching. I used the soak times in the section above.

You can see that with no cold treatment the peak hardness was 2050°F (1120°C) after tempering at 300°F (150°C). Hardness drops with higher temperatures from excess retained austenite. Hardness rose when using liquid nitrogen all the way to 2250°F (1230°C). It would be unlikely to keep rising much beyond this temperature and the possibility of melting grain boundaries starts to become more of a danger. The freezer also rose all the way up to 2250°F but to a lesser extent. Because the increase was small beyond 2100°F (1150°C) this is why I limited my recommendation for the freezer to that temperature. That makes me think both the retained austenite and hardness of the martensite were increasing beyond that temperature, leading to relatively flat behavior. Excess retained austenite can lead to worse sharpening behavior when deburring. Overall this hardening response is not radically different than MagnaCut.

Nothing too crazy showed up in the tempering. You can see that a cold treatment leads to less hardness loss in tempering. Compare 2050°F with and without a cold treatment, or 2100°F with liquid nitrogen vs the freezer. Note that I have a single curve for both freezer or liquid nitrogen from 2050°F, and this was because the two were sufficiently similar to have a single line. Plus don’t want to make the chart too busy.

You will also notice that the hardness reaches an initial minimum at 600°F (315°C) and then rose to a secondary peak around 900°F (480°C). This is known as “secondary hardening.” I don’t recommend tempering in that range, especially with stainless steels, because it reduces corrosion resistance. For example see two Vanax coupons below, both sprayed with 1% saltwater. The one of the left was tempered at 400°F (200°C) and the one on the right was tempered at 1000°F (540°C).

Toughness

We also tested a series of charpy toughness coupons for this heat of MagnaMax. I used my standard coupon which is quarter size (2.5 x 10 mm) and unnotched. Three coupons were tested for each condition. We used liquid nitrogen in the heat treatment of all of these coupons directly after the quench. We used austenitizing temperatures of 2000-2250°F (1095-1230°C) and tempering temperatures of 300, 350, and 450°F (150, 175, 230°C).

The hardness was slightly lower than the small hardness coupons I showed results from before:

Looking at the resulting toughness, it rose from 2000 to 2050°F (1095 to 1120°C), was relatively flat up to 2200°F (1205°C), and then dropped somewhat up to 2250°F (1230°C). This is why I recommended a baseline austenitizing temperature of 2150°F (1175°C) as this appears to be roughly the peak hardness-toughness, though an argument could also be made for 2200°F (1205°C), in part due to a couple of the 2150°F results being on the low end and a couple of the 2200°F being on the high end. This is likely due to statistical variability of testing.

You can also see that toughness increases with tempering temperature as we would expect, which also corresponds to a hardness decrease. Lower hardness generally correlates with higher toughness.

There was a greater increase in toughness between 300 and 350°F (150-175°C) than between 350 and 450°F (175-230°C), which is why I recommended 350°F (175°C) as the baseline tempering temperature.

Hardness-Toughness Balance

But what we would like to maximize is the highest toughness for a given hardness. So I plotted hardness vs toughness below.

You will notice that the maximum hardness-toughness combinations were generally 2150-2200°F (1175-1230°C) and tempering at 350-450°F (175-230°C). The exceptions include: 1) 2100°F (1150°C) with 450°F (230°C) because that combination gave the best properties for lower hardness. And 2) For maximum hardness you need 2150-2250°F (1175-1230°C) in combination with the minimum tempering temperature of 300°F (150°C). I next overlaid those best heat treatment conditions on top of the similar non-stainless steels K390, Vanadis 8, and CPM-10V:

Erasteel MM#1 is the first heat that was shown in the prior article about MagnaMax properties, and Erasteel MM#2 is the final tested material above. You can see that both have a similar hardness-toughness balance, though the new one is skewed to somewhat higher hardness, as expected from more carbon. You will also see that the toughness is very similar to K390 and Vanadis 8, an excellent result given that MagnaMax is a stainless steel with similar wear resistance. So we greatly improved corrosion resistance over those steels while maintaining their other properties. I next plotted those hardness-toughness values vs other stainless powder metallurgy steels:

You can see that MagnaMax has superior hardness-toughness than virtually all of the powder metallurgy stainless steels apart from MagnaCut. This includes steels with a good reputation for toughness including Vanax, XHP, S35VN, and CPM-154. And below I have the more complete graph of stainless steels which is a bit busy:

Corrosion Resistance

I compared the final higher carbon version of corrosion resistance to the earlier and both passed the 1% saltwater corrosion test. Showing a picture of two clean samples isn’t very interesting, so here is the earlier image of MagnaMax vs other steels:

Each of those was austenitized from 2150°F (1175°C). MagnaMax (and MagnaCut) were designed for all of the chromium carbides to be dissolved around 2050°F (1120°C). After the chromium carbides are dissolved the corrosion resistance doesn’t appreciably change with even higher temperatures. This is different than most other stainless steels which have chromium carbides all the way up to the melting temperature. But using even higher than 2050°F does provide some factor of safety, better ensuring the chromium carbides are fully dissolved.

The other main factors for corrosion resistance are quench rate and tempering temperature. I mentioned in the tempering section that tempering above about 750°F (400°C) leads to a reduction in corrosion resistance and I showed a test with Vanax to illustrate that. Quenching isn’t an issue unless it is very slow, which leads to carbides precipitating on the grain boundaries which can reduce corrosion resistance.

Edge Retention

The primary factors for edge wear resistance are carbide volume, carbide hardness (controlled by type), and steel hardness. While the carbides are very important when comparing different steels, there is less of an impact within a given steel. It is true that austenitizing higher dissolves a bit more carbide but this effect is generally drowned out by the increase in hardness. So in general, achieving a higher hardness results in greater edge retention, and there isn’t much point in worrying about the exact austenitizing and tempering temperatures that were used to get there. I have the graph below of CATRA results I tested previously to show where MagnaMax lands and the effect of hardness on the results:

Summary and Conclusions

So I have shown the majority of the heat treatment data that I generated and my reasoning for the different recommendations. I am overall happy with how the heat treatment response ended up. If you want to see the simplified heat treatment recommendations, scroll back near the top where it said “High Level Heat Treatment Summary.” Hopefully that is simple enough for everyone. If not then ask questions in the comments. MagnaMax will be on sale May 1st, 2026 at 9am on Niagara Specialty Metals’ online store: https://nsm-ny.com/shop/

The post How to Heat Treat MagnaMax Steel appeared first on Knife Steel Nerds.

Pop’s ProCut – A New Carbon Steel for Knives

By: Larrin
4 June 2025 at 22:38

My steel research is supported through Patreon. Patreon supporters saw the news on Pop’s ProCut before anyone else. There is currently an article about the upcoming MagnaMax only available on Patreon.

Video

Here is a video version of the following information:

Development

In March 2024 Joey Berry of Pop’s Knife Supply called me and said he wanted to develop a new steel. He said that their most popular steel was 80CrV2 and so he wanted to make “80CrV3.” “You mean 80CrV2 but with a little more vanadium?” He said no but some kind of “sequel” to 80CrV2 that would be more exciting. I told him that doesn’t give me much to go off of but I would think about whether I had any good ideas along those lines. I thought about gaps in the market in the area of low alloy knife steels (“Carbon steel”) that would also be usable by the knifemaker that is buying 80CrV2. It occurred to me that our selection of high nickel steels is very limited; 15N20, L6, and 8670 are pretty much it. These steels are high in toughness and offer good hardness to go with it, but have no real wear resistance to speak of. 80CrV2 is in a similar position just without the nickel. I thought if we added some tungsten and vanadium to a high nickel steel we could make the steel more balanced; give it some wear resistance along with the high toughness. Those carbide pinning elements would mean that the steels are more beginner friendly for forge heat treating. 15N20, for example, already sees grain growth around 1500°F (815°C) and so its toughness drops very rapidly even when only slightly overheated. If the tungsten and vanadium were kept in check the forgeability, grindability, and polishability would remain high. This would also offer an alternative to other tungsten/vanadium steels like Blue #1, V-Toku2, Wolfram Special, 1.2519, and others. Those steels don’t have much toughness to speak of, so we could combine the best of the nickel steels with the best of the tungsten/vanadium steels. Another exciting element with the high nickel is the possibility to use the steel in pattern-welded Damascus as a “bright” layer. This gives an option for a higher wear resistance steel with better edge retention for that component of the Damascus. I told Joey about my idea and we decided to move forward with it.

We took the composition I came up with to a steel mill in Europe and they agreed to make it. I spent a bunch of time working on optimal annealing for the somewhat similar 15N20 based on the limitations of their production annealing process. Based on that we generated an annealing procedure to make the steel respond well to forge heat treating.

Composition and Tungsten/Vanadium Carbides

Here is the composition of Pop’s ProCut compared with other grades in its category. The far right column says “MC (%)” which is a calculation of how much total vanadium and tungsten carbide each steel contains after heat treating. One thing you will notice is that since tungsten is a heavy element it does not contribute as much to the MC as you might expect. For example, CruForgeV with 0.75% vanadium has more MC than Wolfram Special which has ~2.25% tungsten. ProCut uses a combination of vanadium and tungsten in a similar fashion to O7 and 1.2519 steels. So it has similar MC to steels like Blue #1, 1.2519/O7, and Wolfram Special, and more MC than Blue #2 and O1. The other nickel nickel steels (15N20, L6, and 8670) of course do not have any MC. These very hard carbides give the steel wear resistance.

Austenitizing, Tempering, and Hardness

A major goal for this grade was to be “easy” to heat treat with a forge. This requires a wide range of austenitizing temperature where full hardness is achieved while avoiding a toughness drop with higher temperatures. 80CrV2 steel varies a lot with starting microstructure, and two of the mills that make the steel lead to very different heat treating response:

So we wanted to avoid this issue that 80CrV2 sees. We did this by keeping the chromium low and also working with the manufacturer to dial in the annealing procedure so that carbides aren’t too coarse (making them difficult to dissolve). I also compared the austenitizing response with my recommended anneal (described later):

You can see that the hardness reaches its maximum around 1475°F and then does not change above that temperature. If using the anneal I recommend the microstructure is a bit finer and so this can be dropped even further to 1375°F. Thus for heat treating in a forge you can heat the steel to “a shade brighter” after reaching nonmagnetic and the steel will fully harden. If you forge and follow the recommending normalizing and annealing procedure you can even quench from nonmagnetic if you wish.

If the steel is austenitized in that range (1475°F or higher) the tempering is roughly the same regardless of the austenitizing temperature. Here are datapoints for both 1550°F and 1625°F:

You can see that the hardness is relatively high, still 64 Rc after tempering at 300°F, which is generally as low as I recommend for tempering most any steel. With a 450°F temper the steel is still above 60 Rc.

Toughness

Austenitizing

In our heat treating and toughness experiments we found three different regions of toughness behavior:

Below 1500°F, the steel shows an increase in toughness with increasing temperature. From 1500-1575°F the toughness is roughly flat. 1625°F and above shows a big jump in toughness where it is flat again up to at least 1675°F. The reason for this behavior we figured out by looking at the microstructure. These images were taken by knifemaker Shawn Houston of Triple B Knives:

1425°F, 400°F temper

1475°F, 400°F temper

1600°F, 400°F temper

You can see that the carbide content is significantly reduced by austenitizing at 1475°F as opposed to 1425°F. This significant change in cementite (iron carbide) raised toughness. Then when the temperature is further increased to 1600°F and above, virtually all of the cementite is gone and all that remains is the small volume of hard vanadium and tungsten carbides. The presence of these small carbides is what prevents grain growth even at high temperatures. The carbides “pin” the grain boundaries.

15N20 and L6, in contrast, show a drop in toughness at much lower temperatures because they do not have those carbides to pin grains. The steel 1.2519 does have the W/V carbides but it sees a drop in toughness above 1500°F because it gets excess carbon in solution, leading to plate martensite. The carbon content in ProCut is controlled so that the matrix carbon does not reach excessive levels even at high temperature. This gives ProCut a very wide austenitizing range.

Tempering and Toughness

Like many other knife steels, ProCut sees a peak in toughness with a tempering temperature of around 450°F (230°C). Above that the toughness drops due to a phenomena called “tempered martensite embrittlement” which happens in all steels. There is lower toughness with tempering at lower temperatures as well, of course, corresponding with the higher hardness. The behavior of toughness with tempering temperature is roughly similar whether using the higher or lower austenitizing temperature range.

Hardness vs Toughness

This creates two different heat treating ranges, where the steel can be austenitized high (1625-1675°F) to max out toughness with some cost to wear resistance and edge retention, or austenitizing lower (1475-1575°F) to retain more carbide for wear resistance. The steel still maintains a toughness advantage vs previous tungsten/vanadium steels due to the nickel addition and controlled carbon content with the lower austenitizing range. However, with the high austenitizing range it achieves levels of toughness similar to 8670, 15N20, and L6 but with enhanced wear resistance due to the small tungsten and vanadium carbides.

To compare with other steels you can look at the following chart:

Grinding and Polishing

I don’t have a quantitative test for grindability. Reports from knifemakers so far say that grinding and polishing is very easy with the steel. Some low alloy steels developed for higher wear resistance like CruForgeV are more difficult to polish due to relatively large vanadium carbides that are found relatively frequently. This steel we controlled the W/V content to try to avoid large carbides. Because of the limitations of standard steelmaking (as opposed to powder metallurgy) there are still very occasional larger carbides but they are much rarer than a steel like CruForgeV. So far those few carbides don’t appear to be affecting polishing and finishing.

A lower magnification image of ProCut showing that large carbides aren’t observed most of the time

One of the rare large carbides in ProCut

A micrograph of CruForgeV showing large carbides. Notice there is a magnfication difference vs the ProCut images.

Quenching, Oil Selection, and Hamon

The “hardenability” of ProCut is relatively high, which I also found in testing of 15N20. The high nickel content gives it this hardenability. Air cooling from 1600°F with 1/8″ steel resulted in 60.7 Rc, though from lower temperatures like 1350°F the hardenability is lower (I measured 35.3 Rc). This means that ProCut can be quenched in virtually any quenching oil, even canola, and with relatively thick cross-sections.

This high hardenability means that ProCut is not well suited for developing a hamon. The best choices for a hamon are low hardenability steels like 1095, W2, and 26C3. I won’t say it is impossible to develop a hamon but there are better choices. It is likely still fine for other differential methods like an edge quench.

Forging, Thermal Cycling

Maximum forging temperatures are most greatly affected by the carbon content. High carbon steels are easier to overheat, leading to crumbling while forging. The carbon content of ProCut is limited to ~0.87% so this is not a huge factor with ProCut. For safety I put in the datasheet to limit forging to 2200°F (1200°C). Some knifemakers, especially Damascus makers, push the boundaries of forging temperatures and this can be dangerous. Like with other steels, if you continue to forge when the steel gets too cold this is also a danger in terms of cracking. I haven’t heard a lot of feedback in this area so let me know how the steel behaves for you. The high hardenability means that the steel can sometimes harden in air while cooling from the forging temperature. This can lead to cracking if there are stress risers in the blade.

The “thermal cycling” procedure for ProCut is relatively simple. Like with other steels I prefer to do a single normalize and anneal, so only two steps. I have written about this procedure in past articles. The normalizing step is for dissolving any undesirable carbides and other structures. For this steel it would be in the range of 1600-1650°F where the cementite is dissolved. With a furnace you can hold at this temperature for 10-15 minutes before air cooling. With a forge by eye you just need to heat somewhere into that range or a bit higher.

The annealing procedure is then done by heating to nonmagnetic and slow cooling. I recommend faster cooling rates than is typical for datasheets and this type of anneal is called a “Fast DET” anneal. For simple heat treatments you can slow cool either in a furnace or in an insulating media like vermiculite (available in the garden section of home improvement stores). I tried a range of cooling rates in my furnace. I held the steel for 30 minutes at 1350°F and slow cooled at different rates to measure the annealed hardness. At 50°F/hr cooling the resulting hardness was 23.9 Rc. After 500°F/hr the hardness was 24.5 Rc. I also tried setting the furnace to 1000°F/hr but it only maintained that cooling rate until about 1250°F and slowed from there, the average rate of cooling was about 680°F/hr. That resulted in 26.2 Rc, which is plenty soft enough. Shawn Houston did an anneal with 250°F/hr and he measured 21.2 Rc. Here is the microstructure after normalizing and annealing at 1350°F for 30 minutes, and cooling at 250°F/hr:

Normalized and “Fast DET” annealed microstructure of ProCut (21.2 Rc)

“As-received” annealed microstructure of ProCut (12 Rc)

You can see that the faster annealing procedure results in a finer microstructure which is why the austenitizing response was different (see the prior as-quenched hardness chart). The toughness was still relatively similar despite the very different starting microstructure (see the toughness vs austenitizing temperature chart). Those datapoints were generated using a 100°F/hr anneal which is what I recommended in the datasheet. Somewhat faster and slower cooling rates would have a similar result.

Use in Damascus

The high nickel content means that ProCut is a good replacement for 15N20 or L6 as a bright layer in pattern-welded Damascus. This gives an option for providing higher edge retention whereas 15N20 and L6 have almost no wear resistance apart from their hardness. An initial forging experiment with 1084 and ProCut resulted in excellent contrast:

Edge Retention

Pop’s ProCut did surprisingly well in the CATRA test. The heat treatments performed were 1650°F with a 450°F temper (61.2 Rc), and 1500°F with a 300°F temper (64 Rc). As I have written about before, CATRA is not the best for low alloy steels because the sand particles in the test media are harder than cementite (iron carbides). Even with different media they wouldn’t be at the top of the chart but they would be a bit better. It could be that the relatively low amount of cementite in ProCut helped for the CATRA test. But even if that were the case if we compare with another steel with low cementite content like 8670 or 1095, there was a significant boost to edge retention through the tungsten and vanadium additions. Perhaps with the lower carbon compared with other W/V steels meant that there was less of tungsten and vanadium found in the cementite, allowing them to form more of the hard WC and VC carbides.

Toughness-Edge Retention Balance

With the high toughness plus the unexpectedly good CATRA numbers the ProCut looks very good compared with other low alloy steel options:

Corrosion Resistance

This is a non-stainless steel and should not be expected to be stainless. People say that the 2% nickel in 15N20 gives it somewhat better corrosion resistance than carbon steels but I have not developed a test for comparing corrosion resistance of low alloy steels.

Cryo

There is a certain lore out there with knifemakers claiming that some steels “need” cryo and other steels “don’t benefit” from cryo. Part of this lore is that low alloy and carbon steels are in the “don’t benefit” category. Simple carbon steels and low alloy steels still see an increase in hardness with cryo, typically 0.5-2 Rc depending on the steel and the heat treatment. There is a small cost to toughness because of the increase in hardness. ProCut is the same. As an example of another low alloy steel we experimented with see 52100. I did experiments from 1500°F and 1650°F and found, as expected, that hardness increased. The higher temperature led to a bigger bump from cyro which is also typical. None of the edge retention or toughness tests I showed in the article so far used cryo in any of the heat treatments. But if you want even higher hardness for edge retention and strength you can add a cryo step after quenching.

Comparisons to Other Steels

1084 and 15N20

These steels are relatively “easy” to heat treat in that you can heat them up and quench them and get full hardness. However, they are very easy to overheat leading to grain growth and a drop in toughness. They also have almost no carbide thus having very little wear resistance.

80CrV2

This steel is also lacking in wear resistance though overheating is not much of an issue because of the vanadium addition. It also varies a lot between manufacturers and needs more temperature prior to quenching making it more difficult to perform a forge heat treatment.

52100

In the lower austenitizing range (for higher wear resistance), ProCut compares favorably with 52100 in terms of properties. 52100 has a very good combination of toughness and wear resistance. ProCut is easier to heat treat for an amateur knifemaker and also has the option of the high toughness heat treatment.

O1 and 1095

These are old standard steels. O1 has the benefit of being “oil hardening” so it is easier to quench. I have found both to be very sensitive to overheating because of excess carbon in solution. See my article on O1.

5160, 8670, and L6

These steels have significant chromium additions so they are more difficult to heat treat in a forge. They also don’t have any carbide left over after heat treating and thus their wear resistance is very low.

Blue #2, Wolfram Special, 1.2519

These steels have similar wear resistance for edge retention but significantly lower toughness and do not have the benefits of being beginner friendly.

ApexUltra

This is another low alloy steel I helped develop. It has significantly higher wear resistance and attainable hardness than ProCut, which also means lower toughness. I would recommend ApexUltra for those looking for maximum performance in the “carbon steel” category. Though I wouldn’t call it a difficult steel, it is best for makers that have a bit of experience first.

Heat Treatment Recommendations

In a Forge

Heat to “one shade brighter” after reaching nonmagnetic, quench in oil (most types are fine), and temper twice for one hour each time at 300-450°F (150-230°C) to desired hardness.

In a Furnace

Maximum toughness: 1650°F (900°C) for 10-15 minutes.

Higher edge retention: 1500°F (815°C) for 10-15 minutes

Quench in oil (most types are fine), and temper twice for one hour each time at 300-450°F (150-230°C) to desired hardness.

Thermal Cycling after Forging

1625-1675°F for 10-15 minutes, air cool. Without a controlled furnace, heat into that rough range and establish an even temperature distribution prior to cooling.

1350°F for 30 minutes, cool at 100°F/hr to 1100°F. After that it can be cooled more rapidly. Without a controlled furnace, heat to nonmagnetic and slow cool such as in vermiculite.

Summary and Conclusions

I am happy with how Pop’s ProCut turned out. It offers good balanced performance when compared with other low alloy non-stainless steels. Better edge retention than 1095, O1, 80CrV2, L6, 15N20, etc. And depending on the heat treatment its toughness approaches 8670, 15N20, and 5160. And on top of this it is beginner friendly, being easy to heat treat, grind, and finish.

The post Pop’s ProCut – A New Carbon Steel for Knives appeared first on Knife Steel Nerds.

What is Atlantic 33 Non-Tempering Steel?

By: Larrin
19 February 2025 at 16:09

Atlantic 33 Steel

There are a few places to purchase this Atlantic 33 “non-tempering” steel so I have been getting questions about it over the past couple years. The information is pretty scant and the descriptions are mysterious and confusing to anyone who knows steel [1]. In the advertising it says things like: “Drawing of temper to suit different requirements is unnecessary and completely eliminated.” Also there is no composition listed and the heat treating instructions are very barebones. “Suitable hardness is obtained by merely heating the tool and quenching it in water.” And, “May be heated to almost a melting heat without danger of distortion.” It basically just says to heat treat it however you feel like and skip the tempering. If it’s true that it doesn’t matter how you heat treat that is great, but otherwise it would be nice to know how to best heat treat the steel.

What is a Non-Tempering Steel?

While the advertising online calls Atlantic 33 “a new departure alloy steel” it is in fact not new, it has been around since the mid 1930s [2]. Here is an ad for the steel from 1937:

1937 ad for Atlantic 33

However, “non-tempering” steels actually go back even further than Atlantic 33. The earliest I found was the steel “ABC” made by Darwin and Milner starting in 1909 [3][4]. This steel company was run by Paul Kuehnrich who developed several tool steels including D3 and D5 (later slightly modified to be the common D2 in 1928). He was an early pioneer in tool steel who I wrote about in my book The Story of Knife Steel.

Another early non-tempering steel I found was called Simplex which in 1915 had some advertising which uses a lot of language similar to what we still see for Atlantic 33:

Composition  of Atlantic 33 and Other Non-Tempering Steels

There were several other non-tempering steels that would be released over the following years though they never gained much prominence. Here are several that were available in 1954 [5]:

You can see that all are medium carbon, roughly 0.3-0.4%. Each has a chromium addition and either W or Mo (including the original ABC). There is also a Cu addition in some of them. The reason for the copper addition is somewhat of a mystery. Copper additions are not unheard of but are relatively uncommon in low alloy steels, especially back in the 1930s. Copper can help with grain size control from copper precipitates but I have no insight into the 1930s thought process by Atlantic Steel. In any case there were several non-tempering steels without any copper so it does not seem to have been necessary.

What Makes Them “Non Tempering”?

Even in the 1915 ad for Simplex they do not claim that nothing happens during tempering of these steels. It says that “No tempering is necessary except in the case of very small tools, such as punches, when it may be drawn to a straw color with advantage.” In other words, the steels benefit from tempering just like any other steel. However, they selected the carbon content to be in the range of 0.3-0.4% so that they would obtain sufficient hardness for the intended tools while not being brittle. Lower carbon steel is tougher and more ductile than high carbon steel, so you can achieve similar toughness by tempering less with a lower carbon steel. It is kind of an odd idea to recommend skipping tempering altogether. Heating to 300-500°F degrees doesn’t seem all that onerous even in these supposed simple shops they are talking about. So it seems to be a case of marketing more than anything else. Other 0.3-0.4% carbon steels could be used in a similar way. The Ryerson Non Tempering steel could even fit within the 4135 steel specification though the chromium content is borderline for 4135 (0.8-1.1% Cr).

What Happened to Non Tempering Steels?

So Non-Tempering steels saw some use in the industry, though were never particularly popular. Seemingly they were the most useful in shops that have very simple (in other words, bad) heat treating facilities. Those shops that wanted to make quick blacksmith tools, punches, shear blades, and other tools that are subjected to impact at room temperature. The steels fell out of favor by the 1960s and were largely replaced by silicon (S2, S4, S5, S6) or tungsten shock-resisting steels (S1) [6].

What is a Flutagon?

Initially the Atlantic 33 steel was advertised on its own. However, now you often see the steel called “Flutagon Atlantic 33” or “Atlantic 33 Flutagon” and even some people calling it only “Flutagon.” Flutagon was a trademark term by Atlantic steel in 1940 [7] for a new shape of the steel bars they were using that they claimed was more convenient, etc. Because the new shape was advertised for Atlantic 33 the two names became somewhat conflated. However, I think it is better to call the steel “Atlantic 33” and use Flutagon to refer to the shape of the bars instead. After all, the steel is also available in hex bars. Here is a 1941 ad for the new Flutagon shape for Atlantic 33:

1941 ad for flutagon shape

Datasheet for Similar Steel

I did not find a datasheet for Atlantic 33 but I did find heat treating information for Bethlehem’s similar “Non-Tempering” steel from 1958 [8].

Forging and Annealing

The forging temperature range recommendation is pretty standard, 2100-2150°F (1150-1175°C) and finish at 1700°F (925°C).

The datasheet says annealing is recommended if machining will be performed after forging. It says to start at 1400°F (760°C) and cool at a very slow rate of 20°F/hr (11°C/hr) to 900°F (480°C). It is pretty standard for datasheets to recommend such low cooling rates.

It is somewhat strange they recommend such a specific procedure for annealing given the intention of the steel is simple heat treating setups. The steel could be annealed by heating to nonmagnetic and putting in slow cool media like vermiculite.

Normalizing?

There is no mention of normalizing in the Bethlehem datasheet. Perhaps with the low carbon content they were less concerned about it. If you do normalize, the similar 4135 steel has a pretty typical 1600°F (870°C) normalizing temperature.

Austenitizing Temperature

One of the selling points for the steel being viable for simple heat treating setups is that it can be quenched from a range of austenitizing temperatures and still have decent properties. The extra alloy added to the steel helps it resist grain growth, thus having decent toughness even with relatively high austenitizing temperatures. However, perhaps we shouldn’t over-exaggerate this point too much. There is a small drop in toughness and ductility, and a small increase in grain size by austenitizing hotter than the optimal range, which appears to be about 1500-1600°F (815-870°C), see page 170 above. 4135 is typically austenitized at 1600°F (870°C) which is consistent with those results. The steel is relatively insensitive to overheating but if using a furnace I would stick with that range.

Quenching

This is typically an oil hardening steel. Tool Steels by Roberts [6] recommends using water if the cross-section is larger than 2-1/2 inches in diameter.

Tempering Temperature

While the steel is advertised as “non-tempering,” you can see on the page 170 chart the effects of tempering. Comparing “As-quenched” (not tempered) to 300°F (150°C) you can see that the low temper leads to the same hardness (555 Brinell or about 54 Rc), but an increase in yield strength, as well as elongation and reduction in area (measures of ductility). Increasing the tempering temperature to 400°F provides a further increase in yield strength, elongation, and reduction in area at the cost of a little hardness (~1 Rc). So unless I was in a big hurry I would probably still temper these “non-tempering” steels in the range of 300-400°F.

Summary

“Non-Tempering” steels have been around since at least 1909, while Atlantic 33 came out in the 1930s. The steel became connected to their trademark “Flutagon” shape in 1940. The main advantages of non-tempering steels are simple heat treatment where a wide range of austenitizing temperature is acceptable for good properties. While they are advertised as not requiring tempering, the properties actually are improved by tempering. However, the relatively low carbon content is what gives the steels decent properties even when skipping tempering. Other steels with 0.3-0.4% carbon would also behave similarly if tempering was skipped and there isn’t anything particularly special about non-tempering steels apart from the marketing. Austenitizing is best in the 1500-1600°F (815-870°C) range and I would temper Atlantic 33 at least at 300°F/150°C for the small improvement in properties.


[1] https://www.canonballforge.com/about-a33

[2] https://archive.org/details/sim_industry-week_1936-04-06_98_14/page/66/mode/2up?q=%22non+tempering%22+

[3] https://books.google.com/books?id=WH8zAAAAIAAJ&pg=PR57&dq=%22non+tempering+steel%22

[4] https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89074782335&seq=282&q1=3332

[5] https://archive.org/details/sim_american-machinist_mid-november-1954_98_24/page/149/mode/1up?q=%22atlantic+33%22

[6] https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b4418480&seq=426

[7] https://books.google.com/books?id=logbAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA823&dq=%22flutagon%22

[8] https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112008811041&seq=172

The post What is Atlantic 33 Non-Tempering Steel? appeared first on Knife Steel Nerds.

Introduction to Knife Steel Heat Treating from a Metallurgist

By: Larrin
17 September 2024 at 14:10

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Intro

I have many articles about all of the nitty gritty details of heat treating and the metallurgy behind every step. However, there may be some cases where knifemakers are afraid of all of the terminology and science and think heat treating is too complicated for them. When it comes down to it, the steps of heat treating are not particularly difficult. When you follow a recipe for how to make cookies you don’t need to know the science behind every step, but following them will still get you cookies at the end. An expert would know what went wrong if your cookies were too crunchy, too puffy, spread out too much, etc. And how to modify the recipe to change the flavor and texture of the cookies. However for most of us we will just follow the recipe. You can do the same thing with heat treating knife steel! So for this article I will tell you how to follow a datasheet. I will include some links to articles with more information about what happens in each step, but you can get to those when you are ready. Another great place to learn more about heat treating is my book Knife Engineering: Steel, Heat Treating, and Geometry.

Video

There is a video version of the following content, which demonstrates some of the things described in the article. The article has some more detail that the video doesn’t have.

What Are We Trying to Accomplish When Heat Treating?

When you purchase knife steel you are getting very soft steel in a condition that is easy to grind, drill, machine, or cut. This is called the “annealed” condition. However, soft steel is not good for a knife as the knife edge would easily deform. It would not “hold” a good edge. So we have to perform a series of heat treating steps to get it to high hardness for good knife performance. We are targeting a range of hardness usually between about 58 and 63 Rockwell C (Rockwell C is the unit of measurement). Sometimes the hardness unit is abbreviated as “Rc” or “HRC.” The higher end of hardness gives better edge retention but has lower “toughness.” Toughness is a measure of resistance to breaking.

Furnaces for Heat Treating

The basic piece of equipment for heat treating is a furnace. A forge can also be used but it isn’t my favorite method. I have recommendations on how to properly heat treat with a forge here. There are several manufacturers of furnaces and some knifemakers will make their own. I use EvenHeat furnaces, I have a KO 22.5, an LT 22.5, and a Salt Bath 709. The KO model is the high temperature model that can reach 2350°F. I previously had the LB model which has a somewhat larger chamber (width and height) with the tradeoff that it reaches 2200°F. The LT model is designed for tempering up to 1200°F. A regular furnace can also be used for tempering but they aren’t “tuned” and calibrated for low temperature, and you have to wait for the furnace to cool down before tempering. You can also use a conventional oven for tempering though the temperature will be more variable.

One of the big decisions for a heat treating furnace is 120 or 240V. The higher voltage EvenHeat models are roughly twice as fast and also have larger chambers. This makes heat up time twice as long with the low voltage and it takes longer to “rebound” after opening the door and inserting steel. It is better to use 240V if possible, and if you don’t have the capability for doing that you should contact an electrician. Another important decision is the depth, or length, of the furnace. It is usually a good idea to get one a bit longer than you think you would need. If you ever wanted to make a longer blade such as a bowie or kitchen knife you will need a relatively long furnace. Also the temperature is usually somewhat different at the ends of the furnace, especially right next to the door. So having some space between the blade and the front/back is a good idea.

Steps of Heat Treating

The main properties you achieve after heat treating will be obtained after three main steps: austenitizing, quenching, and tempering. For stock removal makers these will be the main steps you perform, while for a forging bladesmith you will perform a couple other steps after forging to set up the steel for these three steps. You heat the steel up hot (austenitize), cool it rapidly (quench), and then reheat to a low temperature (temper). Not very complicated.

Austenitizing

Austenitizing is the high temperature step soaking step, generally 1450-2250°F depending on the steel and desired hardness. Typically a higher austenitizing temperature means higher hardness, as shown on the following table from the MagnaCut datasheet:

You can read about what happens during austenitizing in this article: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/02/28/austenitizing-part-1-what-it-is/

Atmospheric Protection – Foil or Coatings

One thing that a datasheet often assumes is that you know about protecting your steel from the atmosphere and oxygen. Oxygen leads to scale formation and also decarburization, which leads to a layer of soft steel under the scale. With low alloy steels austenitized under 1600°F or so the scale and decarb may not be bad enough to protect the steel as long as you plan on removing some material after heat treatment. There are also coatings that can protect the steel. I recently tested a few of them though I haven’t published those results yet.

For high alloy and stainless steels the most typical method is to use “heat treating foil.” The two common types are 309 and 321 foil, which are stainless steels. 309 is rated up to 2240°F while 321 is rated up to 2000°F, though the 309 is more expensive. You create a foil envelope to place the knife in and fold each of the sides. Some people include talcum powder to prevent sticking though I haven’t typically had issues with sticking apart from high temperatures (>2000°F) and long soak times. Some people recommend putting paper or something else to burn up in the foil packet but this isn’t necessary. Foil is most often used with high alloy and stainless steels which don’t require an oil quench, because removing the foil before quenching in oil is difficult.

Cross-section of AEB-L steel heat treated in a furnace at 1925°F without any protection. The “bright” layer is the “decarb layer” which no longer contains carbon. It is over 0.2 mm thick.

Preheating

Many datasheets recommend “preheating” steps where the steel is heated up to an intermediate temperature before increasing the temperature up to the final target. I described preheating in this article. This process can be done with multiple furnaces or by soaking at the preheating tempreature prior to a ramp to the final temperature. This process is to help the steel achieve a uniform temperature so that it doesn’t transform unevenly. However, knives are thin enough where this isn’t typically an issue. I recommend holding the furnace for 30 minutes at the target final austenitizing temperature instead. You can read why I think so in this article about small knife furnaces and temperature distributions inside them.

Soak Time

After the steel has reached the austenitizing temperature it needs to be held at that temperature for some period of time, called a “soak.” The soak time recommended in a datasheet is supposed to start after the steel has reached the temperature. Sometimes I cheat and start the timer after the furnace has “rebounded” to the temperature (it cools down from opening the door and inserting a cold piece of steel). Once the steel has reached the same color as the furnace it has reached the temperature. You are only seeing the surface but steel is highly conductive and knives are thin so once the surface has reached the temperature it is only seconds before the center has as well.

You will notice that the MagnaCut chart above shows different soak times for each austenitizing temperature, as higher temperatures will often mean a shorter required soak time. The thickness of the steel also matters, the datasheet for MagnaCut says “Min soak time” and if the steel is thicker than 1/8″ (3.3 mm) it may need a few more minutes.

Some knifemakers are afraid of soaking because they think that holding it at temperature will grow the grain size. It is true that holding steel longer will grow the grains but temperature matters much more than time. Holding a steel for 30 minutes is not going to hurt it if the temperature is correct. Undersoaking is a more common issue than oversoaking.

Quenching

The quenching step is what actually hardens the steel. The austenitize dissolves carbides so that carbon is “in solution” prior to quenching but the rapid quench transforms the steel to the hard phase of steel. If the quench is too slow the steel will not reach its full hardness and will have poor properties.

Steels are broadly categorized into three quenching groups: water hardening, oil hardening, and air hardening. Low alloy steels and simple carbon steels typically require a water or oil quench. These are steels like 1095, O1, 80CrV2, and 52100. High alloy and stainless steels are “air hardening” and do not require a water or oil quench to harden after austenitizing. These are steels like A2, D2, 440C, CPM-154, S30V, MagnaCut, and Vanadis 4 Extra.

With low alloy and carbon steels the speed of the quench necessary is controlled by the thickness of the steel (the “cross section”) and the steel. The speed of quench can be broken down into 1) water and brine, 2) fast oil, 3) medium oil, and 4) slow oil. If you get only one oil I would recommend a fast oil like Parks 50 because high hardenability oil hardening steels like O1 can still be quenched in Parks 50, but a low hardenability steel like 1095 would not work with a slow oil. You can buy Parks 50, sometimes generically called Quench 50, from a couple different places including Dubois. I have an article comparing different oils and cross-sections here. I learned that a steel like 1084 can be quenched in a range of different oils at only 1/8″, but at thicker sizes like 1/4″ the type of oil definitely matters. That article also ranks common low alloy steels by “hardenability” (how fast of a quench they need) to help you pick the oil for different steels and cross-sections. With oil and water quenching you “cut” into the liquid with the knife and move up and down rapidly to break up the “vapor jacket” that slows down cooling from the oil/water boiling on the steel surface. Moving side to side can lead to warping.

It is popular for knifemakers now to quench air hardening steels through a “plate quench,” often with aluminum plates. The steel is placed in between aluminum plates so that heat is drawn out. This is faster than sitting in air and helps keep the knife flat (if the bevels are not yet ground). This can also be performed without removing heat treating foil.

Tempering

After quenching, the steel is very high in hardness, but is also brittle. During tempering the steel is reheated to a lower temperature to increase toughness and reduce brittleness. The hardness of the steel is also lowered somewhat (see the MagnaCut chart from earlier or the chart below).

Tempering Chart for 154CM

Typically steel is tempered at least twice, and each temper is usually 1-2 hours long. Tempering at a higher temperature usually decreases hardness though there is an exception called “secondary hardening” in high alloy steels when tempered between about 750 and 1100°F (400-600°C). You can read about the mechanisms behind tempering in this article. Tempering can be done in a conventional oven or in a heat treating furnace after it cools down. I have some tips on using a heat treating furnace for tempering in this article. EvenHeat also makes a furnace designed for tempering.

More complete tempering chart for 154CM that shows “secondary hardening” above 750°F (400°C)

Cooling After Tempering

There are some people that recommend a rapid quench in between tempering steps. This can be done if you are in a hurry. Air cooling to room temperature in between is sufficient. If you are curious as to why you have to cool in between rather than holding longer you can read the article I linked to under the section labeled “retained austenite”.

Cold Treatments

There is an optional “cold treatment” step during heat treating that can increase hardness. Some datasheets recommend this in between tempering steps but I prefer it directly after quenching. In effect it is an extension of the quench down to a lower temperature. A delay between the quench and the cold treatment can lead to less effect of the cold treatment. The MagnaCut chart from before has hardness values from quenching to room temperature, performing a cold treatment in a household freezer, or a cryogenic treatment in liquid nitrogen. No real hold is necessary at the low temperature, the steel just needs to reach the temperature. Typically 30-60 minutes is enough. I have an article on cryo treatments of AEB-L where I discuss a lot more about how cryo works.

“As quenched” hardness of AEB-L with no cold treatment, a freezer, or liquid nitrogen from different austenitizing temperatures.

You may have noticed that hardness can drop if the austenitizing temperature was too high; Using 1900°F (1035°C) austenitizing temperature with AEB-L only resulted in around 0.5 Rc increase in hardness by using liquid nitrogen. From 1975°F (1080°C) the hardness went up from 60.5 Rc to 64 Rc.

You can use most any dewar for holding liquid nitrogen. An off-brand dewar from Amazon or Ebay works just fine. The important specs are the size of the container, usually in liters (mine is 10L), and the diameter of the neck. The most common diameter is 50 mm (~2 inches) but this can be restrictive for wider blades. However, the larger the neck the faster the dewar loses nitrogen, so typically you need to buy a relatively large dewar to get a larger diameter neck.

Extra Steps After Forging – Normalizing and Annealing

When steel is forged it is no longer in the annealed condition. It may not be soft enough for cutting, drilling, etc. And it is not in the best condition for performing the austenitize, quench, and temper. The basic process that needs to be followed is a normalize and anneal. Normalization involves heating to a relatively high temperature (usually somewhat higher than an austenitizing temperature like 1650°F), and then air cooled. This gives the steel a uniform microstructure and grain size. Annealing is done from a temperature typically a bit lower than austenitizing (like 1400°F) and then slow cooled. Annealing makes the steel soft and sets it up for the final heat treating steps. You will also notice below an optional step labeled “grain refinement” that I generally recommend skipping as I have not found an improvement with my testing. This step is relatively common with knifemakers but not in industry and is not recommended in datasheets.

I have an article that describes this process and provides recommended temperatures for normalizing and annealing different steel. For those few brave knifemakers I also have an article on how to anneal stainless steel and high alloy steel after forging it.

Heat Treating in a Forge Instead of a Furnace

The article up until this point discusses heat treating using a controlled temperature furnace. This is my preferred way of heat treating and provides consistent results every time. Some knifemakers like to heat treat with a forge with less control over the exact temperature. I developed a method for minimizing error in forge heat treating as it is very common to overheat the steel and get poor properties. You can read my recommendations in this article.

Every once in a while a knifemaker contacts me and says I am wrong about forge heat treating and that he can get it perfect every time. Below is an example of tests I performed on some of that steel. The toughness was terrible. If you follow my instructions in the linked article you will increase your chance of success.

What Temperatures Do You Choose From the Datasheet?

Datasheets will often given ranges for possible austenitizing and tempering temperatures. The first thing you should look for is a “recommended” heat treatment. You can modify from there of course but this gives a good starting point. Here are a couple examples:

From the MagnaCut Datasheet

From the Vanadis 4 Extra Datasheet

If the datasheet only gives a range for austenitizing I would start with something in the middle of the range. MagnaCut datasheet says 1950-2200°F and halfway in between that would be 2075°F (1135°C), close to the 2050 recommendation. Vanadis 4 Extra says 940-1180°C which would be 1060°C (1940°F), the same as their recommendation for “large sections.”

For tempering a good starting point is usually 400°F (200°C) or 1000°F (540°C). 400°F is good for most steels, though some high alloy and high speed steels will recommend the 1000°F temper. Often these steels can also be tempered at 400°F but the austenitizing temperature would also need to be adjusted based on that change and that would take some work to figure out.

Another thing you can do is check the back of my book Knife Engineering. I give recommended temperatures for most steels in there.

For many datasheets there are many temperature combinations that could work and it is mostly about selecting a target hardness. 58-63 Rc is a good range to target for many knives; use the higher end for thin slicing knives (and careful customers) and lower for knives that need higher toughness. 60 Rc is a good round number if you want a starting point and aren’t sure.

Elements of a Datasheet

Every datasheet is a bit different but I will break down the various parts of datasheets with the MagnaCut datasheet:

Page one of this datasheet (and often multiple pages of other datasheets) is mostly information about the steel. That top left paragraph describes the steel and its general properties. Next it shows micrographs where you can see that MagnaCut has a much finer microstructure than CPM-154. Below that is a table with information about the carbide types in MagnaCut vs other steels. Then a “Tool Steel Comparagraph” shows bar charts of properties of MagnaCut vs various comparison steels. “Typical Applications” serves to tell potential buyers in different product categories when they might want to look at MagnaCut. At the top right you find the composition. Below that is some physical properties which most knifemakers don’t need. Then some test results showing how MagnaCut stacks up in toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance.

On the second page we find the actual temperature recommendations that we have been discussing. First is the forging and annealing temperatures, which of course you don’t need unless you actually forge the steel.

Stress Relieving

Below that is a category of treatments called “Stress Relieving” which we have not discussed thus far. These treatments are optional but can be useful in certain scenarios. During grinding and machining various stresses are built up in steel that can lead to increased movement and warping during heat treating. Performing a stress relief can help with this, where it says, “Annealed Parts: Heat to 1100-1300°F…” Stresses can still be built up during grinding of heat treated steel which required a temperature just under tempering. This is because we don’t want to overtemper the steel, of course.

Size Change

This datasheet also lists the estimate size change after heat treating the steel. The heat treated structure is slightly larger than the annealed structure of ferrite. So typically we expect a small increase in the size of the part after the heat treatment is complete. Using a higher austenitizing temperature will reduce the size increase somewhat, and could even lead to shrinkage. Using cryo would lead to a larger size. This is from retained austenite (higher austenitizing temperature) or from converting more retained austenite to martensite (cryo). You can read about what all of that means in my cryo articles.

When Different Datasheets Contradict Each Other

I have a whole article on the heat treatment of 80CrV2 where I found virtually every datasheet to recommend something different. For example, Swiss Steel Group has what I would call a fairly standard recommendation where it says to austenitize between 800 and 830°C (1475-1525°F). Then Bestar has a recommendation for 840-880°C (1545-1615°F). And the New Jersey Steel Baron datasheet recommends 1465-1480°F. In terms of “thermal cycling,” Bestar offers no suggestions for normalizing and annealing, Swiss Steel Group recommends annealing at 680°C (1250°F) with a furnace cool, and NJSB recommends 1650°F for 10 minutes air cool, 1500°F for 10 minutes and air cool, and 1350°F for 10 minutes and air cool.

Sometimes these datasheets are generated by steel suppliers and not by metallurgists working for the steel company. This appears to have been the case for the New Jersey Steel Baron datasheet. The 1650-1500-1350 normalizing steps are not standard and cannot be found in any other datasheet. The 1350°F in particular could be skipped entirely as it wouldn’t really do anything. And the 1465-1480°F austenitizing range is on the low end for a steel like this. Many of the NJSB datasheets seem to have these same recommendations regardless of the steel – 1075, 1080, 1084, 1095, 15N20, 5160, 52100, 80CrV2, L6, O1,  W1, and W2 datasheets are all virtually identical. I would avoid these datasheets.

Bestar is also an odd case as for a couple of their steels they recommend oddly high austenitizing temperatures. Generally it looks like their datasheets are usually reliable apart from these few cases. In this case the heat treatment would “work” but would be in danger of reduced toughness from austenitizing too high.

Usually datasheets are not as different as in the case of 80CrV2. Standard steels like this one vary somewhat more when compared to a steel made by a single company. They are the only ones that make it so they are the only ones to make a datasheet. I wouldn’t pay too much attention to heat treating guides from knifemakers. Sometimes they are based on good information from datasheets or my experiments, but sometimes they aren’t.

As I said previously, another thing you can do is check the back of my book Knife Engineering. I give recommended temperatures for most steels in there. Usually I found a trustworthy datasheet to have charts on tempering. And in many cases I have hardness-toughness data from my own tests to confirm what a good heat treatment range is. I can’t always promise to have the 100% perfect heat treatment, but I know it is a good one. And in some cases like with 80CrV2 I have heat treatment guides for specific steels on my website.

Where to Find Datasheets

Datasheets can be found in a variety of places. The first and most obvious is from the manufacturer itself. Here are a few websites:

Crucible – https://www.crucible.com/products.aspx

CPM steels S30V, S90V, 10V, etc. Standard steels like O1, A2, D2, M2, M4, 440C, 154CM

Some of the standard tool steels are hidden in the old Tool Steel Selector – https://www.crucible.com/eSelector.htm

Niagara Specialty Metals also has a collection of Crucible datasheets.

Carpenter – https://www.carpentertechnology.com/blog/blade-alloys-101

CTS-XHP, 204P, BD1, standard steels similar to the Crucible lineup

This website is kind of big and difficult to navigate so I linked to an old “blade alloys” page with links to many of them. Carpenter used to have more old datasheets for various standard steels that seem to be gone now, unfortunately. Some of those were replaced with Latrobe Steel datasheets.

Bohler – https://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/en/

M390, N690, S390, etc. They also have many standard grades but each is given a meaningless Bohler designation like K110 is D2.

Another big and ungainly website. You will want to look at “Cold Work Tool Steels” and “High Speed Steels.” Stainless steels are on two different pages under “Corrosion resistant and non magnetic steel” and also “Plastic Mould Steels.”

Uddeholm – https://www.uddeholm.com/us/en-us/

Elmax, Vanax, Vanadis 4 Extra. They also have many standard grades but each is given a meaningless Uddeholm name like Sverker 21 is D2.

Uddeholm strip steels like AEB-L, 26C3, and 15N20 are on a different website with limited heat treating information – https://www.uddeholmstrip.com/

Alleima (formerly Sandvik) – https://www.alleima.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/hardening-guide/hardening-programs/

13C26, 12C27, 14C28N

Alleima has recommendations for a “belt furnace” or a “batch furnace.” A belt furnace is literally a conveyer belt furnace which most knifemakers do not have. This is why those heat treatments have relatively short soak times that must be changed based on stock thickness. I prefer to use the batch furnace recommendations, since that is the type most knifemakers are using and the longer recommended soak time is less sensitive to changes in stock thickness.

More Obscure Sources for Heat Treating Information

The ASM Heat Treater’s Guide is an awesome expensive book that has heat treating information on all of the old standard grades. However, there is a free app (used to be on iOS but now only on Android) which has the recommended temperatures from the book, though it is missing all of the charts and micrographs: https://heat-treater-s-guide-companion.en.softonic.com/android An older edition of the book is also available to borrow on archive.org: https://archive.org/details/heattreatersguid0000unse/mode/2up

Tool Steels by Gill and Roberts – An old awesome book, the best edition is the 1980 4th edition but only the 3rd edition is online – https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89089662902&seq=6 Unfortunately in 1944 the standard names for steels like D2, A2, M2, etc. did not exist yet so you have to know how to read steel compositions.

Tool Steel Simplified by Palmer and Luerssen – another old book by Carpenter metallurgists which has some good information on a few old standard grades. It can be borrowed for free online – https://archive.org/details/toolsteelsimplif0000fran

There are a lot of other old books but this is enough for now.

Summary

The three major steps of heat treating are austenitizing, quenching, and tempering. These steps will control the properties of the steel.

After forging there are steps needed to soften the steel and set it up for the three main final steps. The main two steps are normalizing and annealing. Some knifemakers put too much emphasis on the “thermal cycling” steps to try to reduce grain size. The final three steps, especially austenitizing, will largely control the properties. Many steel datasheets do not include normalizing or even annealing temperature recommendations; they are available on my website in the “thermal cycling” article or in my book Knife Engineering.

Follow manufacturer datasheets to get good temperatures. There are also heat treatment guides for several steels on my website. Also the back of the book Knife Engineering has recommended austenitizing and tempering temperatures.

 

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Most Important Property for Knife Steel? Q&A

By: Larrin
16 October 2023 at 14:07

New Q&A video with questions from Patreon supporters. Go to Patreon.com/KnifeSteelNerds if you want to support knife steel research.

00:00 Ultra high toughness with ferrite/martensite steels?

05:09 Normalize 80CrV2 with stock removal?

09:18 How much forging to eliminate carbide stringers?

11:16 Will CruForgeV ever come back?

12:25 What is the most important property for knife steel?

15:04 Different CATRA test for cooking knives?

17:22 Does bainite have a place in knives?

20:22 Austenitizing soak time?

23:40 High temperature tempering is bad?

 

The post Most Important Property for Knife Steel? Q&A appeared first on Knife Steel Nerds.

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